Evidence shows there were explosives planted in the building.
February 27, 2012
By Craig McKee
The official narrative is simple: A right-wing extremist and his accomplice struck a blow against the American government by setting off a truck bomb in front of the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City, April 19, 1995.
The result was 168 dead, including 19 children, and more than 800 injured. The bombing left the American people fearing a new “terrorist” enemy: the home-grown, militia-loving, anti-government extremist.
Good story. Not true.
The truth about Oklahoma City involved not only a terrible human tragedy but also a story of government conspiracy, media complicity, destruction of evidence, intimidation, and torture. It happened two years after the 1993 bombing of the World Trade Center and six years before the false flag operation of 9/11.
Film producer Christopher Emery began researching the Oklahoma City bombing back in 2000, even moving to Oklahoma City from New Mexico in 2003 so he could be close to witnesses and other sources of information. The result of all these years of work is a remarkable piece of investigative journalism and documentary filmmaking called A Noble Lie. The film does the work that the mainstream media refused, and still refuses, to do.
“We’re trying to rewrite history,” Emery says. “We want to make sure this never happens again.”
The title, as we’re told at the beginning of the film, is taken from Plato’s Republic and refers to the propping up of a myth in order to maintain social harmony and keep the elite in their present position.
The film features powerful never-before-seen TV footage and interviews with survivors, victims’ family members, police officers, rescue workers, and citizen investigators who have been fighting to expose the truth for the past 17 years. It also uses government documents to reveal new information to the public.
In A Noble Lie, we learn that ATF employees (Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives) who worked in the Murrah Building received messages on their pagers prior to the bombing telling them not to go to work. And when the bomb went off at 9:02 a.m. none of the children of ATF workers were present in the building’s daycare center.
The film also reveals that the public persona of convicted bomber Timothy McVeigh was a complete fabrication. Rather than being a radical who hated the government, Emery says, he was actually a CIA sharpshooter and assassin who had been involved in covert government drug trafficking operations. He had been decorated several times, even receiving one commendation while he was in prison for the bombing.
“McVeigh was a very cunning, very talented sharpshooter,” Emery says, “He was a puppet, a showpiece for the official narrative.”
Emery says that McVeigh’s job was to infiltrate militia groups and pose as an anti-government extremist to build up this false persona.
The parallel that jumps out when you consider this aspect of the plot is to Lee Harvey Oswald, the man who the media still refers to as the assassin of President John F. Kennedy even though he was never charged with the crime. Oswald had a persona created for him as well so it would appear that anti-U.S. entities were really behind the assassination. The government created a cover story that Oswald was a Communist (he defected to the Soviet Union only to come right back) when in fact he had been an operative for U.S. military intelligence.
A Noble Lie also conclusively proves that the blast damage at the Murrah Building could not have come from the truck bomb that McVeigh is alleged to have placed there. Debris was blown out from the building, travelling hundreds of feet against the force of the blast. If the truck bomb had done all the damage, the force would have blown debris into the building. Emery says one of the rubber seals that held the windows in place on the north side of the building was found a block and a half away after the blasts.
The film also provides proof that there was more than one blast, with timed charges, planted in the building, set to go off over a period of several seconds. Some survivors avoided death when they ducked under their desks after the initial blast.
We learn the heartbreaking story of patrolman Terrance Yeakey, who was one of the first to respond after the bombing took place (he was there is less than 10 minutes) and who was credited with saving several lives that day. Yeakey was collecting evidence about the bombing, and he was subjected to daily harassment and intimidation from his fellow officers because he refused to go along with the official version of the event.
His early arrival at the site showed the government’s official description of the bombing to be false. They had claimed McVeigh’s truck contained an ammonium nitrate bomb, but if that were true, the air would have been unbreathable for some time after the bombing. This was not the case.
A year after the bombing, and shortly before he was to start work at the FBI, Yeakey was brutally murdered, although his death was ruled a suicide. For this to be true, however, Yeakey would have had to cut his wrists and neck before leaving and locking his car. He would then have had to climb a barbed-wire fence, walk more than a mile through a field, and then shoot himself through the head at an unusual angle. No gun was found. No investigation was conducted.
Was the bombing a ‘sting gone wrong’?
One of those interviewed in the film was Hoppy Heidelberg, who was a member of the Federal Grand Jury that investigated the bombing in 1995. Heidelberg was dismissed from the Grand Jury because he insisted on the right of jurors to call witnesses and to view the Alfred P. Murrah videotapes.
After seeing the film, Heidelberg reacted angrily to the suggestion by Charles Key, a state representative and founder of the Oklahoma City Bombing Investigation Committee, that the bombing was a “sting gone wrong,” a suggestion also made by another committee member, Dale Phillips.
One comment that upset Heidelberg was when Key says in the film: ““Some in the media would accuse us [OKBIC] of saying the government blew the building up, which we never said, and I don’t believe.”
Emery praises the work Key has done pushing for the truth on the bombing over the years, although he reaches a very different conclusion as to how it happened.
In my view, Key’s belief is similar to someone believing that the 9/11 “attacks” happened because of government bungling. Fortunately, A Noble Lie just does too good a job of exposing the government lies and deceptions for the “sting” theory to hold any water at all. The idea that things just got “out of control” flies in the face of so much of the evidence.
If I had a criticism, however, it would be that the sting contention kind of comes out of nowhere, and it isn’t directly refuted by anyone in the film. Had Heidelberg or former Tulsa police officer Craig Roberts (who was interviewed) been asked directly about this theory, both would certainly have forcefully discounted it.
In an article in American Free Press, Roberts commented on the sting theory: “People saying this have never been in law enforcement. That bell just doesn’t ring true to me.”
In this article I’ve just scratched the surface of the evidence unearthed by Emery, director James Lane and writers Wendy Painting and Holland Vandennieuwenhof.
The makers of A Noble Lie have made an important contribution to the quest for truth about the bombing. And according to Emery, there’s more to come. A second film is in the works that will include more explosive evidence to reveal the true circumstances of the bombing. That film will be out sometime next year, he says.
The story told in A Noble Lie shows conclusively that the government’s version of what happened is not only untrue, but a deliberate lie. With the WTC bombing and Oklahoma City, the public was prepped for the mother of all false flag operations, the fake “terrorist attacks” of 9/11.
“They were turning up the ratchet in terms of body count,” Emery says. “It’s all part of a sequence of events, part of a bigger picture.”
Great job in your film review. Yes, OKC was the training ground for WTC. They learned many lessons, like to use foreigners as patsies instead of domestic ones. Also, they learned that the destruction should not have any left-overs; the destruction should be completed so there isn’t much evidence to analyze. Too bad that such thoroughness with the WTC is also a dead giveaway of an overly efficient, overkill, operation.
They’re official site links to this YouTube channel (no embedding code available unfortunately)
http://youtu.be/oIByonzHeGE
Also unfortunate that the findings of these people were released just 3 weeks before 9/11.
Watched it today Craig and the hairs on my neck are still on end. A lot of info I was unaware of.
Pity the internet/information “highway” wasn’t up and running back then the way it is today. Could have been a watershed moment.
Spread it people.
“One of those interviewed in the film was Hoppy Heidelberg, who was a member of the Federal Grand Jury that investigated the bombing in 1995. Heidelberg was dismissed from the Grand Jury because he insisted on the right of jurors to call witnesses and to view the Alfred P. Murrah videotapes.”
As we seek a design for the citizen’s 9-11 commission, when we reopen the investigation let us keep transparency in the forefront of our design and lets recognize that if we allow political forces to control the commission we will not get to the truth. Their machinations will create another disappointing whitewash which may still fool the majority of people.
Nice review of the film Craig.
I got a CD copy of this a but more than a month ago. It is the best single compilation and presentation on the Oklahoma Bomb event I have seen to date.
Being the constant researcher web-wise, I was aware of most of the info – but that just made seeing the evidence presented in such an orderly manner even more exciting for me.
Like 9/11, I was on it from the morning it happened. So much was revealed in the first hours, only later did things begin finding their way to the Memory Hole.
We are again entering the “Homegrown Terrorist” meme. The booster shot of the 9/11 event gave the state a great pretext for the creation of a tight grid panotic maximum security state, as well as excuse for the foreign adventure. But it is now time [note the FBI fliers posted back-page] to again pump up the domestic terrorist angle. A full court press, as it were.
The next false flags may be a combo – domestics aligned with a foreign power {say Iran}…they have already floated that with the “Mexican car dealer” hoax, that didn’t float. And the FBI entrapment stings continue, setting up ‘new immigrants’ of the ‘crazed Muslim’ model.
Meanwhile the Strategy of Tension chugs along like a demon train to oblivion…
ww
There are so many parallels to 9/11. One obvious one is how the media in both cases reported things that they later pretended did exist or didn’t happen. In the case of OKC there were the other explosives in the building and with 9/11 it was the idea of a controlled demolition.
The “ninth leg” was weird too, no?
It was very weird. Would you take it that it had to belong to an accomplice who wasn’t identified?
The vid OSS provided got nixed by YouTube for copyright infringement, but there’s still a full length one available on Vimeo:
http://vimeo.com/36667019
It would be great if as many people as possible (who have the financial means) would purchase the film. This would make more such films possible in the future. Failing that, as many people as possible should see it any way they can and spread the word.
Craig,
It has been an honor to be interviewed by you. Your readers should know all of us with FreeMindFilms do not take any interview for granted and your follow up phone calls show your level of professionalism and concern for the veracity of your work. Your desire to double and triple check your facts and sources is outstanding; which I’m afraid is the exception rather than the norm with most of our collegues in the MSMedia these days.
Also, be sure to check out our ratings on IMDB.com which is a ‘tough nut to crack’ regarding Hollywood movies, let alone an indy feature length film such as ours. That link is at: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2119373/ratings Out of 64 respondents thus far we have (30) [10 out of 10] ratings. (10) [9 out of 10] ratings. and a weighted average of 7.8 / 10 and a median average of 9/10.
Furthermore, on Amazon.com ALL (9) reviews are a [5 out of 5 star] rating ! Not to mention [5 out of 5 stars] rating on ALL 730 orders shipped from Amazon.com c/o three different vendors including FreeMindFilms and Infowars.com. shop.
At the end of the day, we worked very hard to make this film a reality for those who cannot speak for themselves. Those who were yanked from this life into the hereafter on 4/19/95 — The OKC bombing victims. We refuse to remember their deaths in a lie.
C. Emery
FMFilms, LLC
OKC, OK
contact@freemindfilms.com
Chris,
Thank you for that support. And I appreciate that you were so accommodating with your time and so willing to discuss all aspects of the film and of the event. Your film is an outstanding example of what can be done to bring the truth to people and to break through the mainstream media filter.
And I think your work makes you a natural ally of the 9/11 Truth movement. After all, the two events are part of a continuum, and those who fight for the truth for one or the other would do well to combine their efforts. We all stand to benefit if we do. If there’s such a thing as an Oklahoma City bombing truth movement, I’m glad to now be a part of it.
I look forward to your second film on the subject, which you said is planned for release next year. Based on our discussion, I know there will be some astounding new information contained in that film that will further demonstrate the deceptions involved in the Oklahoma City plot.
I encourage those who wish to learn about the outrage of this “inside job,” and who have the means, to buy a copy of A Noble Lie rather than just to seek it out for free on the Internet (no, I don’t get a cut). By helping the filmmakers to receive a fair return on their investment, we’ll be encouraging more films like this one to be made.
A fair return on their investment? Since when is the Truth Movement a For-Profit business!
People who deliberately seek to profit from such tragedies are almost as bad as the perpetrators themselves in the same way attorneys are sometimes worse than the criminals! It’s so disgusting how the whole Truth movement as been taken over by such Profiteers. The only legitimate Truthers are those who if they need money ask for donations. If you want to make money with a For-Profit movie, then go talk to Bruce Willis – heard he is looking for work these days. Or maybe you should team up with Micheal Moore – the original for-profit documentary multi-millionaire now part of the Disney-clan!
If information like this was truly meant to be a service to help inform the public, then you would actively be trying to get it out for “those who cannot speak for themselves” to as many people as possible through every means possible [i.e. free duplication and distribution should be encouraged] like the REAL volunteers who sacrifice all their time and effort for the Truth movement instead of limiting access for-your-own-profit.
As much as I would like to see this – there is no way in Hell I’d ever pay you $19.95 for the privilege when it’s enough just knowing a conspiracy already exists without actually seeing it anyway and there are plenty of other sources online. Truth and Justice should not be reserved for those who can afford it!
As far as your remarks to the Truth Movement…I think the great majority of us in this movement realize that these crimes by the system are sequential – that is the ‘9/11 Truth Movement’ is the manifestation of a building truth movement in this nation since the coup of 1963.
9/11 caused a bud to bloom in the portion of the population that is still sane, who have resisted the PR enchantment. On the one hand, those enchanted were plunged deeper into their cognitive oblivion [as it was trauma based programming] – And on the other hand, to those with eyes to see, it was an obviously contrived media circus – glaring PR Theater.
All the usual suspects as ‘talking heads’, like the portfolio from Central Casting, all on script. Even theme music and logo graphics and trademarked Titles such as “America Under Attack”…all major stations with their particular take on the meme.
I had seen the constant looping sequence of the plane hitting the tower on TV…in the breakfast room of a motel in Tarzana early in the morning. I had driven up to the Valley from San Diego the night before, to be at a meeting at Stan Winston Sp.Effects. After the meeting, I jumped in my car and headed back to S.D. The whole way I listened to NPR…and this scenario of ‘the usual subjects’ being on script, even the scripted nature of the back and forth of the NPR hosts, made it clear to me that this was a developing media psychological operation.
When I saw the first tower blow up on TV as it was first airing – the certainty hit me like a bullet.
But for many others as slow dawning took place – and it was they, joining the forces of what was once a smaller minority opinion, became the substantial minority that is now the Truth Movement. There was a seachange in the strength of the enchantment, but this was countered by a seachange in the numbers of people waking up. A new balance of tension, a new dialectic, and a new paradigm.
I have come to view all of this from what might be called a “cosmic perspective” at this point. There is something big afoot. I think it is far beyond merely sociopolitical, and something happening in the consciousness of a certain measure of the human race. Things are certainly coming to a head as we meet here today in cyberspace.
ww
Not anymore. They pulled it.
I haven’t seen the film yet – but I hope it answered the questions I have about Timothy McVeigh:
Was he really executed? And if so, how did they get him to cooperate after what happened to Lee Harvey Oswald & Jack Ruby (who were also both agents)?
Or is it a sham and McVeigh is in a cushy witness protection program somewhere?
The film doesn’t address any suggestion that McVeigh wasn’t executed. It does deal with the possible use of mind control against him (based on the mind-control background of doctors who were assigned to him when he was in custody). I highly doubt he’s in witness protection because the risk of him turning up would be too great. It would blow the entire story and prove inside job. They’d never take that chance.
That makes a lot of sense Craig – but I cannot help thinking that when Rachel Maddow interviewed T McV he did not look scripted or much like a mind-controlled zombie.
Do you suppose he was “convinced” that he did it? How did they keep him on script just before his execution?
That’s a good question. I’ve been wrestling with this whole subject. I haven’t seen the Maddow interview but on 60 Minutes he talked about the bombing as if it was a terrible thing done by someone else (just his tone; he never said this). There’s always the possibility (however unlikely it might seem) that McVeigh was prepared to stick by the official story and take the fall right to the end.
It is as tough to believe that Tim McVeigh knowlingly “took the fall” for the CIA. It is almost as tough as believing that 19 hijackers were stupid enough to willing;y to commit suicide all at the same time because of thier “loyalty” to the CIA.
If I were the CIA, I’d convince Tim McV that the lethal injection was just saline….and that I’d get him out in an elaborate plot if he played his part right up until the end…
Unless i have no understanding of psychology and people are more willing to die for no good reason than I had previously thought…
I agree with you. It is tough to imagine this. What we do know is that McVeigh kept his role with the military and the CIA (according to the film) hidden right to the end.
The theory that McVeigh wasn’t executed has some very strong points to it. But as far as any conclusive proofs…well, you know how that is in such deep cover boogie as this.
I had a friend in Alpine CA once, who was connected pretty deep in the milieu, he was married to a daughter of the guy that published ‘Soldier of Fortune’ Magazine. He worked at Wakinhut as a guard and shooter. He showed me pics one day of “Dr. Oswald”, in a meeting he had with several acquaintances. The guy was definitely a dead ringer for Lee Harvey {aged a few years}. My friend said he knew that it was, but it was dangerous to go any further into it….
I can’t say yup, and I can’t say nope, I just say maybe. Wonderland is filled with many mysteries of this sort…often just red herrings. In the long run such details make not a whit of difference to the overall systemic analysis, which as a whole is as clear as day.
ww
I watched A Noble Lie last night, a week after seeing the Maddow flick with the McVeigh interview. I was very impressed with the info presented in A Noble Lie, and helped me put some of the pieces of the official story in place after watching the prior movie.
However, the question that most poses a problem for me is just like you guys are wondering. What was the deal with McVeigh?
In the Maddow interview, McVeigh said he wittingly did not put license plates on the getaway car. Why would someone hoping to eschew blame for a crime do such a thing? He said he knew it was just a matter of time before he was stopped by law enforcement, further he kept going over in his mind what he would do if that happened. This, to me, is intriguing yet baffling.
It is also a possibility that these audio tapes used in the Maddow interview are not even McVeigh speaking. They only use a computer generated image of him for the movie when showing him “talking”. It wouldn’t be that difficult to do.
Ultimately, it makes the most sense in my mind that he was still involved in the military, and indeed believed that he was infiltrating these anti-government organizations rather than being a legit cog in them. I can accept that he was under mind control at some point, as I believe that to be a very real phenomenon, however, I would like to see more evidence of this connection with McVeigh. A Noble Lie touched on it with regards to the doctor (I believe that’s who it was) but I’m hoping there is more info in the sequel regarding that theory.
Keep up the good work.
-RT
Yes, the McVeigh angle is one of the hardest to understand in the OKC case. How did they get him to take the blame? Could he have been convinced that he would be “rescued” before execution took place?
It’s certainly possible that he was promised to be “rescued”, but it doesn’t make much sense to me at this time. It also doesn’t make sense that he would knowingly take the fall. Other than mind control, I’m having trouble seeing other options.
Another piece of info that is intriguing is that McVeigh reportedly stopped and asked for directions in OKC. However, in the Maddow interviews he does not mention that, in fact he said as with any military operation, you do a dry run before hand and make sure you know your route and other details to a T. Maybe there were two McVeighs? Maybe his interview tapes were doctored? There are just so many questions.
I guess I’d like to better understand how mind control could work in this case. I, too, believe it exists, but I can’t help wondering how it could be so totally relied on by the perpetrators.
All animals ultimately respond to just 2 basic emotions – Love or Fear!
a. Either he did it out of his “love” and sense of duty to whoever he was working with;
b. They threatened him in whatever manner that instilled the Fear of God in him!
Jim Keith wrote a pretty extensive book researching the use of mind control. I believe it was titled Mind Control, World Control. In it he addresses many ways this can be done, and even has a chapter dedicated to McVeigh. After reading his book, one can see how easy it would be to create a mind controlled assassin. Whether or not this is the case with OKC remains to be seen.
Have you seen this? It’s just another piece of the not-so-noble lie.
Interview With LBJ’s Mistress On JFK assassination
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lPdviZbk-XI
Craig,
Since this film was released this past Dec. 2nd, shocking revelations that we were not able to corroborate during post production have come to bear out. ie. They have been proven to be air tight, irrefutible, etc.
Intially we had enough information to make a 6.5 hour movie. That would have backfired on many levels as it would have overwhelmed the informed and turned away the wholesale and marginally sceptic viewer.
Easing into this subject turned out to be the better choice and we are very humbled / pleasantly surprised at the incredible response we’ve received.
Your request for your readers to purchase this film on line from http://www.anoblelie.com, infowars.com or amazon.com is helping us pay off the substantial costs to produce, release and market this film.
Unfortunately, there are very influential political power brokers in OKC that do not want this film to see the light of day. Nevertheless, we blew past the threshold of their desire to not have this movie released. Just like the malcontents within the USDOJ and the FBI who did not want to help us with this film, the local political power-brokers are a dollar short and a day late.
On the other hand, our exposure has come by way of crawling and fighting to get the market exposure day by day and week by week;thanks in LARGE PART to open minded members of the Indy press such as yourself. You are an incredible support to filmmakers like us.
And we empathize with our colleagues that have walked this path before us. As well as those that will most certainly follow after we have stepped aside.
Our end goal is to empower those with legal standing to have the tools and information to indict those responsible for the planning, commission and cover-up of this crime. This is a resolute Capital murder case. And there is NO statute of limitations on Capital murder here in the U.S.
We look forward to releasing the follow up to this film in the correct context and at the appropriate time and place in 2013.
C. Emery
FMFilms, LLC
OKC, OK
I just ordered a copy of this film and cannot wait to get the next one too….
Please let me know your impressions after you’ve seen it – particularly on McVeigh.
Will do. :o)
What B.S. now you sound just like Alex Jones which explains why you sell on infowars.com – “they don’t want you to know this information but you can get it for just $19.95!”
Since we are talking the Truth here – please publish online EXACTLY what your “substantial costs to produce, release and market this film” actually are – THANKS!
According to McVeighs last cell-mate David Hammer, McVeigh worked directly for the Feds, and fully expected his own execution to be faked . There is a link to an interview with Mr Hammer in my own blog post, here: http://onebornfree-mythbusters.blogspot.com/2012/02/fbi-murder-and-cover-up-interview-with.html
Regards, onebornfree
Apologies for linking to the film (I hadn’t realized it was copyrighted). I’ve downloaded it but I’ll not post it anywhere until Mr Emery feels it’s the right time. This information needs to be spread.
Can’t wait for the follow up if the first film is anything to go by!
Just going to meat on the bones of what is discussed in the video here:
http://www.infowars.com/articles/us/ok_axis_of_evil.htm
Oklahoma: The Axis of Evil
May 30, 2006 (2006??)
by Holland Van den Nieuwenhof
This information needs to be spread but Mr Emery feels it’s more important that he get his $19.95 first!
Mind control victim, patsy, both?
He or “they” go out of his/”their” way to make it known that McVeigh was allegedly very sympathetic to the Iraqi people yet was supposed to be mixed up with far right elements. Spook written all over the operation and subsequent cover up. Mind control (which is a verified,documented psychological possibility) using Dr. Louis Jollyon West’s methods? The guy who repeatedly visited McVeigh in jail.
Remember he served in Iraq and was allegedly “rejected” by Special Forces.
“Pseudo-Identity and the Treatment of Personality Change in Victims of Captivity and Cults”
http://web.archive.org/web/20040610003034/http://www.trancenet.org/research/west.shtml
Timothy McVeigh’s alleged letter (which doesn’t appear scripted to me personally):
onesliceshort,
Thank you for bringing Dr. Louis Jollyon West into the picture. As most serious researchers know this operative has deep involvement in many of the “lone-wolf” events going as far back as the Patty Hearst kidnapping, and had direct involvement with Sirhan Sirhan, in the RFK case. He seems to have been an apprentice to Ewing Cameron and his techniques of “psychic jamming”.
One would note the visual aspect of ‘psychic jamming’ in the induction of national trauma in the media’s 9/11 presentation – I am referring to the looping of the airliner crashing into the tower, and then the looping of the towers blowing up.
Electromagnetic Necromancy…
ww
Dear Mr. Emery,
I’ve ordered your film and am looking forward to watching it.
Does your film go into a OKC-9/11 connection in the form of the small committee from a govt institution that wrote up the official OKC findings that steered the OCT? I recall reading at some point that these same people were involved in writing up the official 9/11 findings that steered the OCT in the early days at least before Dr. Zelikow with his “public presumption” was able to create public myths in his 9/11 Commission Report.
“The result was 168 dead, including 19 children, and more than 800 injured.”
Since many, if not all of the alleged 9/11 victims appear to have been fake, artificial [i.e.computer generated] entities [see: http://www.cluesforum.info/viewforum.php?f=18&sid=9b9e7bc795b3fff08fda103e3baeca5b ]
….it might be interesting to try to find out just how many of those alleged 168 OKC victims can be verified as having been actual, real, live people.
Regards, onebornfree
“Since many, if not all of the alleged 9/11 victims appear to have been fake…”~onebornfree
Appear fake to who?
Not to be too critical here, but aren’t we approaching, “the Martians did it,” end of the scale with this sort of thing?
ww
Hybridrogue1 said: “Appear fake to who? Not to be too critical here, but aren’t we approaching, “the Martians did it,” end of the scale with this sort of thing?”
Appears fake to _me_.
I understand your skepticism, and believe me, it takes a while to get “there”. [i.e. to reach the conclusion that I have tentatively reached to date.]
If you are willing to suspend your own disbeliefs/pre-prejudices for a while [actually, quite a while- the process takes time!] , then you might be in a suitable mental condition to be able to at least fairly consider my proposal, and to then carefully review the large amount of evidence accumulated at the link already supplied, which reveals that most, if not all of the victim bio-information and photo-portraits we have all been “fed” appears to have been manufactured out of whole cloth[ i.e on computers]. Have fun. Regards, onebornfree
If you are willing to “suspend your own eyes” that saw some the victim’s survivors fight against the 9/11 Commission report including those that were killed who either know too much or did not take the pay off, then you will realize that “the large amount of evidence accumulated” on the Internet about the victims being fake is itself FAKE unless you are a paid shill working for them too – nothing to see here but deliberate disinfo planted as a distraction from the Truth!
Dear Mr. HybridRogue1,
Let it be known that you brought “the Martians” into the discussion, even though it was a flippant remark. Is there something with the “alien agenda” we should be looking into?
Although it is hard to get past your nose, Mr. Shack’s September Clues and Phil Jayhan’s Let’s Roll Forums provide some nuggets of truth in the form of proof that many of the alleged 9/11 victims were fiction: photo-shopped entities with weak legacies and designed to pull emotion strings. This was foreshadowed in the Operation Northwoods plans presented to JFK.
Thus, scrutiny into the fiction or reality of some of the OKC victims is fair.
Full Disclosure: Mr. Shack’s September Clues and Phil Jayhan’s Let’s Roll Forums both officially ban me. Themes from Dr. Wood’s textbook defended better than the debunk hit some nerves and got them uncomfortable.
To both Mr. Once and onebornfree,
I have been on such carousels too many times in the ten plus years I have been on this case.
I have already stated that I think both the Shack and Wood stories are woowoo disinfo. As far as considering that there were no deaths of the workers in the towers…bullshit -flat out, that is my response. That there were likely special digital legends created as well, it is part of Intel’s MO, and I wouldn’t doubt it.
All of this nerdling through trivial details is for fans of fantasica. It doesn’t lend to the deeper analysis of the system, but detracts. To me it is rather like having a beautiful naked girl on your bed and you become fascinated with the colorful sparkly toe nail polish she is wearing and spend the night enchanted by her toes – juvenile and silly.
ww
onebornfree, a few further remarks;
You say:
..”If you are willing to suspend your own disbeliefs/pre-prejudices for a while..”
Rather than getting into a deep epistemological discussion of the terms, “Belief” and “Judgement” and the dissing and preambling of the second. Let me just say that I do not deal in ‘belief’, I deal in hypothesis and theoreticals on degrees of plausibility. Any prejudgments I make are grounded in “like experiences” on sound rational consideration.
I have a great deal of experience with intelligence analysis, methods and practices, gleaned through more than 40 years of research. I am however ever-wary of dogma, and I keep an open mind as a general rule.
There is a certain architecture of modern political power that must be understood as the foundation of the article of your research here, on the meaning and psycho-sociological effects of Political Theater – PSYOPS.
There are many mazes and blind alleys in the complex web of the controlling myth. One gets an intuitive sense of these things as one matures into this field. As you and Mr. Once are noting “nuggets” of truth spread out like “a trail of breadcrumbs” – I note that they are deliberate red herrings laid to lead you astray, and point to the Vein of Truth that is blatant and right in your face if you just look up.
There is no real mystery to 9/11, it is an obvious systemic psychological operation. It is as clear as the fact that the US is no longer a functioning constitutional republic. All of it is hidden in plain sight.
Forget your decoder rings and London Fog overcoat costume – there is serious business at hand and it is at a critical stage.
ww
Dear Mr. HybridRogue1,
You have a nasty habit of putting words into my mouth.
I never said “there were no deaths … in the towers.” However, the evidence is compelling that a significant number of the reported deaths of airline passengers, of workers in the towers, and of first responders were simVictims.
Having experienced Mr. Shack first-hand here and lately on his home-court, I now know he is disinfo. But that doesn’t mean his efforts into exposing aspects of the 9/11 media hoax can be thrown out whole-sale. What it means is that each nugget needs to be inspected and vetted, and some will be bogus.
And this goes for all 9/11 (dis)information.
A recent dawning in my own understanding of 9/11 is the depressing fact that the public during our lifetimes (and our kids) will never, ever get an objective investigation based on open-access to government, military, & media archives.
At this point in time, everything you or I think we know about 9/11 is disinformation. It all requires pain-staking vetting.
When 9/11 Truthers such as yourself dismiss disinformation sources out-of-hand like you do with your Shack and Wood comments, you become a tool of disinformation in advancing its agenda, which includes taking out of play many nuggets of truth.
One of Mr. Shack’s true disinformation agendas is to get all 9/11 imagery distrusted to the point where no argument could be advanced or supported using (only) the imagery; he casts doubt on even images that aren’t obviously tainted.
I’m not at the point where I can label Dr. Wood or her textbook disinfo. Thanks to spins on Mr. Shack’s carousel, I am starting to see the areas where she might have been duped (e.g., tainted images) which then misled her to wrong conclusions. I don’t really care whether space-based or spire-based DEW (with free-energy from Hurricane Erin or Hutchison cold-fusion) survive the vetting process. But what will survive the vetting process are her valid unanswered scientific questions into the energy requirements that the disinfo you march behind ignores, as well as evidence and correlations in the destructive side-effects (e.g., anomalous fire damage to vehicles).
“..everything you or I think we know about 9/11 is disinformation.”~Mr. Once
Bullshit.
ww
Senor El Once,
Thank you for your questions. We chose not go into the 911/OKC connection. There was way too much solid information just on the OKC case that we chose to focus on the false narrative vs. the facts of the case as a primer for those that knew little to nothing of the case and for the more advanced researcher that may know quite a bit about it.
As far as an official report, fortunately THAT was completed by an excellent committe of private citizens headed up by Oklahoma State Rep. Charles Key. It was a 501C3 committee simply called the Oklahoma Bombing Investigation Committee. [OKBIC] See: http://www.okcbombing.net
Rep. Key will be term limited out of his office this coming May 25th. i.e. By law he will not be able to serve any longer as an Oklahoma State House Rep. He served from 1986 to 1998 and then from 2006 to this coming May of 2012. Please clarify your acronym – OCT. I’ll be happy to answer any more questions you have. Thank you for your support of our efforts and your continued interest in this case.
Best Regards,
C. Emery
FMFilms, LLC
OKC, OK
@ Hybridrogue1 regarding his/her post for March 1, 2012 at 5:57 pm :
Aren’t you getting a little off the point here?
My original observation was simply that as it seems as if there were/are fake victims created as part of the 9/11 psyop, that there was a distinct possibility that this had also occurred in the OKC bombing case. No more.
As far as your statement : “It doesn’t lend to the deeper analysis of the system, but detracts.” goes, I would definitely disagree.
I suggest that it really all depends on just how far down the rabbit hole an individual is prepared to venture in order to follow the white rabbit. Obviously for you the possible faking of victims is just “sparkly toe nail polish” – so be it. Others [myself included] might be [and are] inclined to a different valuation, regardless of your own valiant attempts at “expert” dismissal of the entire subject.
Regards, onebornfree.
Let’s see Onebornfree,
What is the “entire subject” that you feel I am dismissing, and how entirely relevant is it to the ENTIRE SUBJECT?
And just how much is it worth to go back and forth over it here?
I have given my opinion, you have given yours. It doesn’t matter to me – I think your are enchanted by cosmetic detail and wasting your time.
If you think it means anything other than that, and is somehow KEY to breaking the case, I would surely like your explanation of that. As I said before, it is rather standard operation for intel to create various legends, usually for emotional boosters if these are “victims”. And just so it is noted that this is likely shown to be the case for some of the 9/11 cast.
However, how much farther are we in breaking the case as far as who the central perps are?
For myself I prioritize issues in order of importance.
You see, you have found a flag, or “indicator” of the MO of an intelligence operation. But the ENTIRE thing screams “Intelligence Operation!”…top-to-bottom-inside-out-and-backwards!
THIS HAS NEVER BEEN A MYSTERY.
From day-one anyone who understood the system knew it was a PSYOP – Public Relation’s Political Theater.
Who ran the op?
Who ran the White House on 9/11? The PNAC crew, with Cheney at the helm.
MOTIVE – MODUS OPERENDI – CUI BONO
I see no reason for us to squabble over this. You are your own person, deal with it as you will.
I would hope that some would take heed of some good advice in honing analytic skills, and not be instantly insulted by critiques. But we all share a bit of that ego-thing, don’t we.
ww
Dear Señor El Mierda del Toro,
Do not attempt to pin your aporia on others.
Just because you have made yourself dizzy with spin, doesn’t mean anyone else is.
As per waiting for the system to come clean, that’s delusional.
As far as cracking the case, that was determined within days of the event.
If you are slow, you should avoid racing.
ww
Dear Mr. HybridRogue1,
What is good for the goose is also good for the gander, when you write:
You demonstrate repeatedly your lack of objectivity by being unwilling to wade through “El Mierda del Toro” of suspected or known disinformation sources to find the nuggets of truth worth saving. As a result, you become the tool of disinformation.
I wrote:
This has far-reaching applicability beyond September Clues and Dr. Wood. This applies to Dr. Jones’s nuclear explanations as well as to his sacred nano-thermite “toro” and “su mierda” that science-challenged folk such as yourself step in and track all over the place.
hybridrogue1 said: “What is the “entire subject” that you feel I am dismissing, and how entirely relevant is it to the ENTIRE SUBJECT?”
It’s relevancy, or lack thereof, depends on the subjective valuation of each individual. You deem it irrelevant,[and I have no problem with that], but so what? Are you implying that because you see it as irrelevant, that others “should” too? Who, besides yourself do you believe you are entitled to speak for?
hybridrogue1 said: “And just how much is it worth to go back and forth over it here? ”
Obviously, for yourself, its worth nothing. So don’t, leave it alone already. For others, maybe it is, maybe it is not, who knows at this point 🙂 .
Again, what are you implying: that because you _don’t_ consider it worthy of attention, that others should do the same?
Regards, onebornfree
Let me answer you Onebornfree, by comments having to do with Señor El Once.
Just one post back the Tango dancing gentleman asserted in clear and concise terms that it is the Truth Movement itself that is the governments disinformation program. And yes it was put in other terms…so I am not here “putting words in his mouth, but characterizing it fairly in these remarks.
You will see again above, with this:
“This applies to Dr. Jones’s nuclear explanations as well as to his sacred nano-thermite “toro” and “su mierda” that science-challenged folk such as yourself step in and track all over the place.”
He asserts here that I am “science-challenged,” which I assure you is far from the case, although I am certainly not a PhD in physics. But what he also asserts here is unfounded and specious allegations against Professor Jones, who has been one of the most honest and forthright scientist in the taking apart of the ‘Official Story” as per the destruction of the WTC.
Why am I addressing you through a critique of el Once? Because he has tread into the very maze I warn of – by following his little gold-leafed turds down a side passage leading away from the main vein of gold. And this is the danger of becoming enchanted with such trivial pursuits, rather than staying focused on the central aspects of the case.
Once claims that I am a “tool of disinformation”…so now it’s not only Jones and the Journal of 9/11 Scholars, but I as well that am a disinfo agent in his pumped up delirium.
The term aporia, has nothing to do with “lack of objectivity” – but with a lack of my confusion over the issues that have spun his head like a top.
[“aporia” means simply, “confusion”- “puzzled” “befuddlement”..etc.]
And where did this befuddlement of Mr. Once arise? By picking up little gold-leaf turds that Wood laid, a total ad hominem filled diatribe against Jones himself, rather than a scientific critique of his science – which she is utterly incapable of. I assert with confidence that it is Wood and her fantasy land “science” that is the disinformation here. And Shack as well. Both of their stories are utter junk. And it doesn’t take more than a glance to see this.
ww
Dear Mr. HybridRogue1,
Mischaracterizing my statements again, I see. I never wrote:
But now that you bring it up, it is probably worth investigating, eh? Where can we find an example of that?
Ah. So if you aren’t science-challenged, then you’re obviously taking us for another spin on your disinfo carousel.
I see your ad hominem against Dr. Wood. Where is my ad hominem against Dr. Jones? I must have missed it.
The scientific critique of Dr. Jones’ science has been provided several times. I’ll repeat it most briefly both for new readers and scientific-wannabe’s-but-aren’t like yourself.
Dr. Jones wrote a paper based on blindly-accepted measurements of radiation at ground zero from govt sources and performs with it scientific slight of hand: (unvetted) radiation measurements did not match the radiation signature of three known nuclear weapon types, therefore he leaps to his conclusions that no nuclear weapons were used. Does he speculate about other nuclear sources and unknown nuclear weapons that could account for the (unvetted) radiation measurements? Nope. He lamented frequently about issues with other govt reports (e.g., timeliness, voracity), yet has no issue swallowing the one on radiation measurement?!
So that a vacuum isn’t left in taking nukes off the table, Dr. Jones gets credit for discovering nano-thermite in the dust which can indeed burn very hot and without air, drawing its oxygen to burn from the chemical reaction.
The problem here is that neither Dr. Jones, nor Mr. Ryan, nor Mr. Cole, nor you bothered with “boojie woojie high school chemistry” to run numbers on nano-thermite’s (or other incendiaries’) burn-rate to estimate quantities required to account for the duration of hot-spots… because this suggests massive, totally unrealistic quantities. And when the science-challenge yeomen of 9/11 Truth run with it to explain features in the destruction that “boojie woojie high school chemistry” proves it cannot, he doesn’t correct the record.
Don’t let me give the wrong impression. Mr. Shack and Dr. Wood both have some junk. I assert with confidence from having gone deeper into the subject matter that important nuggets of truth are also to be found there.
For you to judge everything as utter junk from no more than a glance and from your expressed reluctance to explore deeper? You seem to call yourself a 9/11 Truther. Ironic how you validate your own statement: “[T]he Truth Movement itself … is the governments disinformation program.”
“Aren’t you getting a little off the point here?”
Isn’t this blog about OKC???
I was going to post more relevant literature for people (like myself) who were totally unaware of just how important it is not to let OKC get buried again but what’s the point if it’s buried here in a blizzard of chest thumping, irrelevant posts about 9/11?
Seriously guys..
Dear Craig,
The movie “A Noble Lie” arrived in the mail today and I just finished it.
WOW. It is an excellent film. I plan to invite others to see it and and look forward to watching it again (and yet again) as there is so much content I had never seen before – nor understood until now.
However, it is now obvious to me that the government story about the bombing of the Murrah Building is a total lie. This is the first time I have had access to really examine the pictures of the damage.
As to McVeigh’s death – I still have nearly the same questions as before. We know for sure that he was a govetnment agent. He made sure he attracted attention, was known to be “extreme”, found and captured. A sting gone wrong? Given the facts, that’s a stretch. McVeigh was “executed” by lethal injection – supposedly his body was not examined and he was almost immediately cremated. (Really, why the rush?)
I simply cannot believe that McVeigh is dead. He had to be rewarded for playing his part right up until the end. If his handlers had him killed – it would be very difficult for them to recruit others.
This film blew me away. It is very well done and I sat on the edge of my seat all the way through it.
It is the complicated tangle of lies need the propaganda of government ~ truth can always stand by itself. And this film goes a long way to spread some truth.
I hope a lot of people will see this – I’m spreading the word. I cannot wait for their second film to come out.
All Best,
Painter
I’m glad you liked the film. I’m also excited about the sequel.
“Isn’t this blog about OKC???”~Onesliceshort
This particular thread is indeed about OKC. It is also a part of a series of threads that are, for better or worse, strung together in an ongoing dialog.
I have had my say about it, and don’t see any need to reprimand the Señor’s latest squattle.
I would however like to see OKC as recognized as but one in a long series of deep state events. Again, with an eye to the systemic nature of what it is we are up against.
ww
Dear Mr. HybridRogue1,
Your squattle is well-written, and I concur.
Dear Mr. OneSliceShort,
Yes, it is a bit unfortunate that we have diverted this OKC thread with 9/11 concerns. My apologies. Do carry on with OKC.
It would be interesting to know who has taken study courses in, Sociology, Psychology, Logic, Critical Thinking, Epistemology, Systems Science, Cultural Anthropology, Banking {Usury}, Media, Technology, etc…
As well as history, especially history beyond the pop level pap as officiated by the National Historical Society.
Perhaps a simple question answered would shed some light. Is there any here among us who thinks that “The New World Order” is a wild eyed “conspiracy theory”?
Another question might be, is anyone unaware of the fact that the US is a panoptic maximum security military-police state?
Is there any question as to where the agenda the paradigm we are bound within leads to?
It seems to me plainly that it is the same charge that in 1776 Jefferson made against the Crown and it’s interlinked corporations and central bank system: It is a plan “to reduce us to utter despotism”.
Is it not then also plain that the OK Bombing is a link in this very plan to reduce us to slavery. Is this not the core to our angst here, that to which we speak?
This is but a small sum of what I mean by staying focused. Our resulting picture should be panoramic so as to see all of these parts fit together into a coherent tapestry.
“Models are orderly, consistent and sequential representations of complex systems. Like a Road Map, Models can guide us from point “A” to point “B” so that we don’t go astray. When you understand how a Model works, the complex system it represents becomes predictable.”~Adrian Salbuchi
This is why I mention epistemology, and the conscious structuring of ones thinking.
~ww
HybridRogue1: “Why am I addressing you through a critique of el Once? ”
The hell if I know 🙂
HybridRogue1: “… by following his little gold-leafed turds down a side passage leading away from the main vein of gold.And this is the danger of becoming enchanted with such trivial pursuits, rather than staying focused on the central aspects of the case.”
So you see yourself as being on some sort of mission , to warn all us innocents away from what you characterize as “gold-leafed turds down a side passage leading away from the main vein of gold.” and the accompanying “danger” [as you see it] “of becoming enchanted with such trivial pursuits, rather than staying focused on the central aspects of the case.”
Is this what is commonly referred to as “delusions of grandeur” ? We’re all adults here,[maybe?]. I certainly don’t need any delusional self appointed gatekeepers to tell me what to think and focus on, thank you very much.
Regards, onebornfree.
P.S. If you can ever bring yourself to address me as a separate entity, instead of attempting to speak to me through someone else i don’t even know [what’s _that_ all about?], I’d be more than happy to give you a very short ,sharp scientific criticism of Prof. Jones 9/11 “scientific research” to date, [the exact same criticism applies to J.Wood’s “research” as well, by the way ; in fact it applies to any/all of the so-called “scientific” research to date that various authors have used to reach their various “incontestable” “scientific” conclusions about exactly what demolished the WTC complex], but not in this thread, because as someone else has pointed out, it’s way off topic here.
Dear onebornfree…yes you, specifically addressed here and now;
You say:
“I’d be more than happy to give you a very short ,sharp scientific criticism of Prof. Jones 9/11 “scientific research” to date”
Good I’d love to read it. Post it on the following thread. The conversation seems over there, I’m sure no one would mind. Sock it to me…{as they say}.~ww
‘Sanctions in Gallop 9/11 lawsuit send a message: seek justice at your own risk’
\\][//
Mr. McKee might have another opinion, but I think discussions of Dr. Jones belong in the thread: “When did they know? 36 Truth leaders on how they awakened to the 9/11 lie”
http://truthandshadows.wordpress.com/2012/01/11/when-did-they-know-truth-leaders-on-how-they-awakened-to-the-911-lie/.
I don’t have a problem with that. Almost anything would fit in this particular thread.
I’m gonna find out if my local video store is progressive enough to put “a Noble Lie” on its shelf. I wonder how Gore Vidal is these days? He got close to Tim McVeigh, he certainly exchanged letters with him and may have even visited him in prison.
Vidal was amazed at the depth of McVeigh’s knowledge of American history.
McVeigh quoted “Invictus” shortly before he died-if he died.
I am afraid to say that this is another sad American episode of false flag terrorism committed against innocent American citizens.
First let me commend Chris Emery and the Noble Lie crew for a job well done. Their efforts warm my heart and give me hope. I just wanted to say I am a big fan.
I am not sure if this was mentioned in the thread, but there was something else interesting that took place in OK…
http://bellaciao.org/en/article.php3?id_article=7529
Also, I have to say I am amazed that “Señor El Once” always finds a way to work in DEW, Judy Woods, no planes at the towers into nearly every single blog discussion. Amazed …and suspicious.
Thanks A. Marquis…I was thinking the same thing.
Onebornfree,
You say:
“Is this what is commonly referred to as “delusions of grandeur” ? We’re all adults here,[maybe?]. I certainly don’t need any delusional self appointed gatekeepers to tell me what to think and focus on, thank you very much.”
So you ask a rhetorical question pregnant with implications, rather than state outright that which is surely the place of a certified physician. Isn’t that clever of you? Or is it? Perhaps we are NOT all adults here. Perhaps you are a bit ‘touchy’ about the subject of how mature you are?
I seriously don’t wish to stand and attend to your ‘gate’. If you cannot bear to have your opinions questioned, even ridiculed, you will have to grow up some because we’re in the real world here, and as is said, “this shit happens”.
I find these side issues silly and jejune. And yes the therefore of that is I find you silly and jejune. I am not one to beat about the bush on such matters. So there it is straight out. You can get over it, or you can squall at me some more. It’s up to you.
I am waiting for your “scientific review” of Professor Jones on the 36 thread – it you can figure out how to get there. Once posted the address.
ww
hybridrogue1 said : “And yes the therefore of that is I find you silly and jejune. ”
Thank you for the admission,thereby confirming what I already suspected of you.
Now after that revealing statement from yourself why would I still hold to my offer and go to the trouble of posting my own criticism of a researchers “scientific” methodologies, especially for little ole _you_ to deride – more delusions perhaps, or merely just another attempt at an insult to my intelligence ? But I’m not _that_ stupid, yet [I have better things to do] 🙂 So long mr hybridrogue1
regards, onebornfree
So Onebornfree,
You have an opportunity to present something of actual substance – but you decline because of hurt feelings.
Gee, I hate to rub it in but that is….yup, silly and jejune.
Lol
Whatever.
ww
I have a notion that Onesliceshort has some more fascinating information on Timothy J. McVeigh.
I for one would love it if he would so post – having the patience to step over some of the off-topic hurdles that I apologize for feeling the need to have added to.
Thanks, ww
@ Socrates and Painter and the others that support our efforts at FreeMindFilms, THANK YOU. It’s been quite a journy since I decided to move to OKC back in January of 2003 to start my research [boots on the ground] so to speak for this film. It was a stutter start with financing being assured then pulled at the last minute only to repeat that cycle at least six times because the investors wanted full final edit control. That my friends would have been the death call for the movie and would have relegated it to the dust bins of the back rooms at Nat Geo, The History or Discovery Channels.
And as you can see, that is NOT what this film is about, Never has been, Never will be.
We shot almost identical footage that the feckless producers at these various networks refused to air. How do I know that? Because our DP – Director of photography, Devin Winter worked as a stringer DP for ALL three of these networks laying down interviews in the course of five years for various and sundry OKC anniversary stock mini docu-dramas. They paid him well for his talents. But in the end, Discovery, History Channel, Nat Geo – All based their OKC docudramas on sophomorically written scripts and final cut edits that were simply childrens fairytale stock.
Am I saying these networks do this sort of thing all the time? No. But I seriously do wonder sometimes if what I’m watching on their cable channels is really based on or attributed to anything of substance. i.e. documentation that is actually bonafide and vetted for facts.
Back to Socrates, if you find out about your local video store wanting to carry the movie, please let me know ASAP and we’ll work out an agreement with the store for a bulk purchase discount. In addition, we are open to discussing finders fee for you. We don’t expect to have you do this for nothing. Just contact me at: chrisemery@cox.net and let me know your Real name and Concise subject in the subject line.
That goes for any one of you that are reading this. One of the many reasons I’m proud to work with my very good friends at FMFilms is that they have the highest level of integrity and they make sure that whomever steps forward to help us promote this film is taken care of for their efforts. We will talk to you on a one on one basis. Strictly confidential of course.
As far as the folks at NatGeo, Discovery Channel and The History Channel. I can say without a doubt that IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE of the OKC BOMBING, they completely missed the mark on presenting a factual, objective review of what occurred here. That’s not even up for debate anymore. Their efforts were deliberate and with careful planning. FMFilms kicked this movie release into high gear and left those folks in the dust back on Dec. 2nd, 2011; the release date of our film.
Thank You Mr. Emery, for both your wonderful and important film, and your graciousness of coming to the site to speak with us as you have. That is pretty rare in these days of raging egos, and holier-than-thou “media stars”.
I wish you great success as a film maker and truth teller.
You asked for topic ideas…
If I could make a film, I would center it on the works of Antony Sutton – probably working backwards from his last book, ‘SKULL AND BONES’ and working back through the long intellectual trail that led him to his ground breaking expose’.
~Willy Whitten
Dear Mr. Emery,
I received the movie on Friday and am only 10 minutes short of having watched the whole thing.
Kudos.
I was living in Germany at the time of the OKC incident, so I was sheltered from most of the media spin and patriotic rhetoric surrounding OKC that helped pave the way for tighter controls on citizens.
Although I knew OKC and 9/11 had many parallels, I was stunned by a couple that were revealed in your OKC documentary. Allow me to plant a seed with you with regards to your next movie: the lessons learned from OKC applied to 9/11 and the OKC-9/11 parallels.
On this theme, let me say that learning about Clinton-damaging Whitewater legal files being targeted for destruction and then failing this, physical removal by agents from the OKC rubble was pretty stark on many levels. An OKC lesson learned for 9/11 was to be sure building destruction was complete. Both the WTC-7 and the Pentagon were 9/11 targets for the damaging files stored there. WTC-7 had many SEC case files against elites and corporations who financially support presidents. President Bush paid them back when these are wiped out. Those targeted at the Pentagon were the records and the investigators of the Office of Naval Intelligence who were investigating the $2.3 trillion in unaccounted for transactions by the Pentagon and its related agencies.
You wrote:
9/11 was no different in the fawning and complicit corporate media, except that they were brought into the operation as an instrumental player from the onset. Woes me for bringing up September Clues, particularly when I now assess them as being disinfo and requiring more effort to locate the nuggets of truth. Still, I find convincing many of their arguments about media manipulation. An OKC lesson learned was to not wait for confusing media reports that then have to be buried and/or re-spun. On 9/11, the media was planting seeds of the official govt conspiracy theory (OCT) before the dust of the towers had even settled, which made it easier to tamp down “toleration for outrageous conspiracy theories” at the same time they poo-poo’ed supposition of the WTC being any form of a controlled demolition.
Senor El Once:
Thank you for your kind words and support of our film. Your feedback is sincerely appreciated.
If you would not mind, we are open to suggestions for future film projects in addtion to good and maybe not so good feedback about our film on the OKC bombing. We are always receptive to constructive criticism. That’s how we improve for our next film project. And who better to offer that critcism – if need be – than our viewers.
Feel free to send your comments anytime to: contact@freemindfilms.com. We read ALL of the emails sent to that address and file them according to subject, urgency, date recvd., etc. Again, thank you for purchasing a copy of our film and for your thorough feedback.
Best Regards,
C.Emery
FMFilms, LLC
OKC, OK.
Mr. Whitten,
Thank you for your feedback. In the future, if you prefer to contact our film crew directly through our website email, please do so at: contact@freemindfilms.com. That email site is read every single day by our editing / marketing personnel.
Best Regards,
Chris Emery
FMFilms, LLC
OKC, OK.
Hi Mr Emery,
I’ve been doing a crash course on this event (I can understand now why you’re upcoming release would be “6 hours” long…incredible) and was wondering if you could clarify something for me.
I’ve seen Rep Charles Key comment that there were claims that McVeigh and John Doe 2 were seen on video footage getting into a “pick up truck” after the explosion. The claim was contained in a Channel 4 “reenactment” of what the surveillance footage showed based on a “source” allegedly “close to the investigation” (this alleged footage was “missing” because the “tapes were being changed” according to FBI in an FOIA request for their release)
http://www.redicecreations.com/article.php?id=8151
Here’s the Channel 4 piece in question:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qj0mNN1nf40&feature=youtube_gdata_player
Was Mr Key actually told this ad verbatim? That they were seen getting into a pick-up truck? If so, who or what was the source?
Thanks
Responding the ‘onesliceshort’.
I have only heard that news report once and unfortunately neither I nor the other members of the film crew know the source of that claim. To the best of my knowledge, Mr. Key has not made that claim. We DO KNOW that McVeigh and his accomplice who was NOT Terry Nichols (**) were seen by two credible eyewitnesses leaving the scene of the crime in the well know Yellow and copper primer paint colored Mercury Marquis. The first witness was nearly run over by these two MEN about within three minutes BEFORE the mutiple explosions as this witness was re-entering a nearby bldg. finishing their smoke break just before 9:00 AM that day.
The second witness saw the two MEN calmly standing near the archway underpass of [then] The Southwestern Bell Bldg. three blocks away and approx. 10 to12 minutes after the bombing. They were looking in the direction of the remains of the A.P. Murrah Bldg. as the smoke was rising and S/R personel were rushing to the scene of the crime. We think this second sighting may have been a ‘double’ / ‘look-alike’ team of McVeigh and one of his cohorts.
This second witness could be discounted by the FBI and the prosecution if/when the actual or planted accomplices were taken into custody, indicted and put on trial. We later discovered this scenario is ripped straight out of CIA textbook / training manuals. It happens ALL the time in foreign assasinations. etc. i.e. One team to pull off the dirty deed and disapper with the other to throw off the law enforcement agencies and be a usefull idiot in pending show trials.
In the end we discovered between (12) to (18) people were invovled with this crime. Most in a very precise and compartmentalized fashion.
(**)NOT Terry Nichols who btw was repairing roof on his house in Herrington, KS, 220 miles away at the time of the multiple explosions coming from the APMurrah Bldg.]
C.E. – FMFilms, LLC
@Chris Emery
I’ve suggested to my local video hire store that they should make your movie ‘A Noble Lie’ available.
I’m quite interested to know if they are going to order it or not. I reminded the store manager that the price of ‘Liberty’ is eternal vigilance. I for one am prepared to pay the full price to hire it for one day.
“NOT Terry Nichols who btw was repairing roof on his house in Herrington, KS, 220 miles away at the time of the multiple explosions coming from the APMurrah Bldg.]”
Wow….
Thanks very much for the rundown Mr Emery.
I’ve been going through everything I could find on OKC from JD Cash, “Murder in the Heartland”, Trentadue, Alex Jones and Charles Key’s 9 part “Oklahoma City Bombing, what really happened?”
and reading any and all literature I can find.
I just recently came across the significance of the “brown pick-up” and am trying to digest the multiple sightings and contradictory “official” claims. As with 9/11, definitely a CIA and _insert blank here_ operation where multiple subplots and breadcrumbs have been strewn both that day and for future disinfo and cover stories.
I sincerely hope and pray that if and when a renewed campaign to get the message out, that we learn the lessons from what has happened to the 9/11 truth movement.
I can already see that there are “sting gone wrong” and “meant to happen” camps (I’m in the latter for reasons I’m sure you’ve heard before) but I also see that both “camps”, for want of a better word, are united in their determination to get to the truth.
@Socrates
Good man.
Oklahoma City Bombing What really happened 1-9
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KrQtjCPV-oU&feature=youtube_gdata_player
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XnyzaCc0_Go&feature=youtube_gdata_player
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FvGmV-_0kMg&feature=youtube_gdata_player
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7PlHvXibss&feature=youtube_gdata_player
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EXQ2Ze7hfgI&feature=youtube_gdata_player
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TSH6AAMKYS4&feature=youtube_gdata_player
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PRehmQBUsDI&feature=youtube_gdata_player
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7WqY8rGGnE&feature=youtube_gdata_player
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aA0wrn-7qfQ&feature=youtube_gdata_player
Trentadue on Alex Jones
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMAxT1hxENA&feature=youtube_gdata_player
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3j6qh76iYjo&feature=youtube_gdata_player
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o32scjonEmU&feature=youtube_gdata_player
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZGoXatbb-I&feature=youtube_gdata_player
Kmtreward.com
http://intelwire.egoplex.com/trentadueindex.html#docindex
Alex Jones – Oklahoma
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vIV90WfPzOc&feature=youtube_gdata_player
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5Dui0g2WrY&feature=youtube_gdata_player
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qj0mNN1nf40&feature=youtube_gdata_player
Paul watson infowars trentadue
http://www.infowars.com/confirmed-fbi-got-warning-day-before-okc-bombing/
Note: I’m no great fan of Alex Jones but there is some great footage and interviews. A massive contradiction that could prove fatal to convincing the public is exemplified with Jones’ dual claims that the evidence points to a “bomb in the building” (which it does IMO) and that it was a “sting gone wrong”. It can’t be both.
If it’s a “sting gone wrong”, you’d have to ignore Brigadier Gen. Bentin K. Partin, the Office of the Inspector General’s report on the FBI crime lab procedures, the Wright Armament Laboratory at Eglin Air Force Base who conducted a simulation of the OKC bombing and write off media claims that there were bombs “bigger than the first one” removed and defused (documented and witnessed).
It’s not a matter of who’s right or wrong but each and every piece of evidence available should be explained by THEM. And not be allowed to act as a wedge in any campaign.
2cents
Socrates,
Please contact me at: chrisemery@cox.net with the contact information for the video store, address, owners name, phone number and I’ll be happy to contact them. Thanks for your offer to help us out on this matter.
C.
Gentlemen, [and Ladies ?]
GREAT posts above. I am truly humbled at the renewed / continued interest in this case. There is not a day that goes by that I don’t think about this case in one fashion or another. Either by others contacting me about it or my thinking of it under various circumstances.
My P.O. Box is at the USPS station right across the street from the OKC ground zero.
The Oklahoma City National Memorial Museum is adjacent to the site where the Murrah Bldg. once stood and also across the street from the post office. see: http://www.oklahomacitynationalmemorial.org/
Their staff panders the official narrative of the case. They have NO issues with hiding behind the knee of the FBI and the USDOJ and the corrupt proceedings of the Federal trial of McVeigh and the Federal and State trials of Nichols – in doing so.
The executive director of this Museum and her staff refuse to speak with our film crew as they look down their nose at us as though we’re dirt under their shoe. I’m not sure what’s worse: The museum director and the board of trustees thinking they’re right and no one has the right to question their convoluted story line (or) they’re so gullible to believe the FBI and the USDOJ without question.
You have to live here – in person – to fully appreciate our OKC crew and those that still seek the truth about this case here in OKC are living in an episode of ‘The Twilight Zone’ TV show. Except there is no one to say: ” Cut – That’s a wrap !” The tape keeps rolling and there is really no way out of this (bad) episode.
At least we’re trying to counter the false narrative with the truth. And, thanks to all of your help, I think we’re making progress.
C.
“You have to live here – in person – to fully appreciate our OKC crew and those that still seek the truth about this case here in OKC are living in an episode of ‘The Twilight Zone’ TV show. Except there is no one to say: ” Cut – That’s a wrap !” The tape keeps rolling and there is really no way out of this (bad) episode.
At least we’re trying to counter the false narrative with the truth. And, thanks to all of your help, I think we’re making progress.
C.”
It’s hard enough convincing people online just to LOOK at evidence never mind convince them.
I can’t even imagine your situation.
The official bandwagon in OKC has been rolling for nearly twenty years. People will immediately pull down the shutters when anybody tries to burst the warm, fuzzy bubble of denial. It’s not their fault. They’ve been conditioned to turn to authority for shelter from the ugly, heinous truths that would shatter their reality.
Rest assured that when your work is eventually released, I’ll spread it.
“I believe that unarmed truth and unconditional love will have the final word in reality. This is why right, temporarily defeated, is stronger than evil triumphant.
Martin Luther King”
OSS
I agree with both Chris and Onesliceshort,
With determined persistent companions Truth will out. Truth has no statute of limitations.
I think we are witnessing the beginning of an apocalypse even now – veils are being lifted and villains are being outed on many levels – they even out themselves, as Panetta and Dempsey did in an open session of congress by claiming their authority comes from the United Nations and NATO.
These were clear and unambiguous declarations of submission to foreign governments, agencies and organizations and ended with the dismissing of the Constitution as not applicable to them or their decisions.
But truth being in the open must be attended to by the general mass of people, in that arena, I see a tension building – that too is the doing of the Power Elite – the more pain the people must suffer the more they will begin to question why this is so. Not because they are used to questioning, but in their desperation.
A reckoning approaches.
ww
McVeigh captured on film still in army in August 93, one year after he had allegedly left after “failing” his special forces entry exam due to a “blister on his foot”.
More seen in upcoming sequel to “A Noble Lie”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qHv2wUZ2Uho&feature=youtube_gdata_player
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PLpRI0I4Svs&feature=youtube_gdata_player
60 Minutes interview (look at the nose specifically)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=smLYgadzAHI&feature=youtube_gdata_player
Bill taped this interview from our studios here in Oklahoma City this past January via a superb Skype connection to Alex’s studios in Austin.
Our film crew considers Bill a very brave man and a close confidant. I’ve known him since April of 2006. He’s been a HUGE support to our efforts in helping us promote this film.
The interview segment with him in front of the bushes was actually shot in Madison, WI when I was up there shooting B roll of the Sterling Hall segment of our film. Bill helped with that shoot too.
He’s a professional (DP) – cameraman, writer, actor, producer and has worked with several ‘A’ list actors during his extended acting career in Chicago. You would be VERY surprised at who he’s given advice to and how many of those actors continue to correspond with him on a regular basis.
Bill’s story is VERY compelling and based on reams of documentation and incredible audio and video footage. It’s somewhat surreal reading the screenplay of the movie pilot episode he was shooting ‘on location’ footage for when he was given the extended tour of Camp Grafton.
Little did he know he would cross paths with fate in the human form of Timothy McVeigh during a four month window where the FBI didn’t know where McVeigh was. Or if he was even alive.
The harrasment he and his family members had to endure for nearly eight years after that sighting is even more bizarre. That is an incredible story in and of itself. Bill is the real deal. And so is his story.
Chris, I don’t mean to be a pain in the ass, but can you (or anybody here) point me in the right direction regarding two contradictory claims that Nichols allegedly made.
1. It’s claimed that Nichols handed himself in after hearing his name mentioned on the radio (that alone is a strange one in conducting a “manhunt”). And that he was held while his home was searched (?) and the alleged receipt for ANFO ingredients was allegedly found with McVeigh’s “thumbprint” on it along with other bomb making paraphenalia (again strange that he never got rid of the stuff given that he heard he was being “hunted”)
That he realized that they were searching his house when he heard his address also being mentioned on the radio.
2. It’s also claimed that he was actually at home when the ATF/FBI raided and he allegedly tells of a story where they told him to go get a gun allegedly hidden in his bedroom and he refused believing that they were going to shoot him.
The source is from this excellent resource (though written pre 2000 and presumably written for people already familiar with the case)
http://www.gnosticliberationfront.com/oklahoma_city_bombing2.htm
Have I read this wrong?
Cheers
OSS
PS Send Hoppy my best wishes and hope he gets well soon (saw the AJ show with you and him)
We need more characters like that! Both in the fight and in life itself.
OSS
OSS,
You’re NOT a pain in the backside. You pose some great questions and I don’t mind answering them for you. Heaven only knows I’ve had hundreds of similar questions about this case when I started researching it. And I continue to have some almost every day. It is a privelage to be able to offer some guidance on when/where to find answers about this case. And I’ll be the first to say: “If I don’t know the answer, I’ll point you in the direction of where to find it.”
Regarding Question # 1: TRUE.
Terry Nichols DID turn himself into the Herrington, KS PD station house TWO days after the bombing. Back in Feb. of 2006, I met the ABC RADIO reporter that broke the story on the air in the Herrington, KS area of the alleged ‘manhunt’ for Terry Nichols. Terry would later tell his attorney – Michael Tigar that it was this radio broadcast by Sharon Rice that prompted him to turn himself in to the local PD.
The FBI did find receipts for a purchase of Ammonium Nitrate in ONE of Terry Nichols kitchen cabinet drawers and NO there was aboslutely no bomb making supplies nor paraphenalia in or around his house.
Federal discovery documents showed Terry regularly purchased (A.N.) – Ammonium Nitrate fertilizer from at least TWO feed/seed suppliers. One in KS and the other in Michigan (not so often in MI,) to supply Terry’s stash that he would sell at gunshows and survival meetings. A.N. was a cheap and efficient fertilizer and continues to be widely used by thousands of farmers to boost their crop yeild if mixed in the right amounts.
Terry’s defense counsel slammed the FBI and the U.S. prosecutors at Terry’s federal trial in Denver for making such outlandish statements. Despite all of the obstacles tossed in the way of the defense counsel by the FBI, the ATF, the USDOJ and the presiding federal judge himself – Richard Matsch, there was absolutely NO credible evidence nor eyewitness tesitmony supporting these unfounded claims. i.e. They were whole cloth lies and the Nichols defense counsel called them out as such.
I visited Terry’s house, I spoke with the realtor that set up his land contract with the owner and I along with three film colleagues made a thorough search of his basement in early 2006 with the permission of the elderly woman living there at the time. It was a rare opportunity to obtain a visual and physical context of where the prosecution and defense claimed evidence was hidden, uncovered, etc.
I have reprinted the conclusion to the Office of the Inspector Generals report slamming the veracity of the federal authorties case against McVeigh and Nichols which was printed and released in March of 1997. Unfortunately, this report was placed under a court ordered seal by Judge Matsch. It was NEVER shown to the prosecution, the defense counsel nor the jury members of either the McVeigh nor Nichols trials. As you read this conclusion, you must ask yourself: “Would McVeigh still be alive today, as a free man and would Nichols been exonerated of all charges and idictments against him dropped if this information was allowed to be presented in thier respective Federal trials? ” My answer to that question is a definitive YES. Again, that Conclusion paragraph is posted at the very bottom of my response.
Regarding Question # 2: FALSE.
This scenario DID occur. But is was with Terry’s brother James at James house in Decker, MI. I had the opportunity to speak with James by phone during the few months leading up to Terry’s STATE of OKLAHOMA vs. Terry Lynn Nichols murder trial which started in early March of 2004.
This scenario was walked through by James Nichols for Michael Moore in Moore’s movie: ‘ Bowling For Columbine. ‘ several years ago. The scenario did take place the day James Nichols was taken into federal custody the day AFTER the OKC bombing.
James DID have a state of Michigan license to own and carry a firearm and he had his pistol hidden under one of the several pillows on his bed. Even James’s good friend, a local county sheriff stood up for James. This county sheriff told the Federal agents in house that they were on a wild goose chase and they were wasting their time looking through the house and giving James a rough time. [This would later bear out to be true.] I know first hand the way James was treated by the federal authorities for the next thirty days. It is shocking. That is another story for another time.
Here is the conclusion from the OIG’s report on the FBI’s horrific mishandling and wholesale creation of evidence to support their case against McVeigh and Nichols. Note: ‘Williams’ refers to Dave Williams who was a subordinate technician and supervisor of the FBI’s D.C. Hdqts. crime lab. He was dealing with substance abuse issues during the time of his alleged ‘stellar’ investigation of the OKC bombing forensic evidence. ‘Thurman’ refers to Williams supervisor. Another willing FBI dupe who rubber-stamped approval on Willams reports that would eventually wind up in the hands of federal prosecutors and be presented as bonafide, irrefutible fact in the McVeigh and Nichols federal trials. Yeah, you’re probably thinking: No way!! I say: This doesn’t even begin to describe the insidious, sinister conduct and rationale of the U.S. DOJ’s attorneys on this case. It gets worse, Much worse. Hopefully this will give you and idea fo what really happened.
” V. CONCLUSION.
Williams’ report contains several serious flaws. His opinion as to the VOD (Velocity over distance) of the main charge was unjustifiable; his statement of the VOD of ANFO was incomplete;hisestimate of the weight of the main charge wass too specific and based in part on improper grounds; his conculsion as to the containers for the main charge was unjustifiably categorical; his categorical indentification of the initiator for the booster was improper; his conclusions concerning a non-electric detonator, the fuse, and the time delay were scientifically insupportible; his conclusions were not supported by the contents of the report; and he included some AE dictation in a selective or confusing way. These errors were all tilted in such a way as to incriminate the defendants. We are troubled that the opinions in Williams’ report may have been tailored to conform to the evidence associated with the defendants. We conclude that Williams failed to present an objective, unbiased, competent report.” (End of paragraph 1 of 2). I think you get the idea here.
The ‘irrefutible evidence’ presented in the McVeigh and Nichols trials by the USDOJ in Denver, CO had NO scientific nor legal merit. It was all garbage from day one of their trials.
Chris E.
FMFilms, LLC
OKC, OK
Chris,
Great admiration for the work you are doing, this has been a very enlightening thread.
KP
KP,
Thank you.
Thanks very much Chris.
I’m going cock-eyed reading up on Oklahoma and it was indeed James Nichols that messed me up!
“Federal discovery documents showed Terry regularly purchased (A.N.) – Ammonium Nitrate fertilizer from at least TWO feed/seed suppliers. One in KS and the other in Michigan (not so often in MI,) to supply Terry’s stash that he would sell at gunshows and survival meetings. A.N. was a cheap and efficient fertilizer and continues to be widely used by thousands of farmers to boost their crop yeild if mixed in the right amounts.”
From the earlier link:
“Nichols family friend Bob Papovich also claims the pair was selling fertilizer at gun shows as plant food, along with an odd assortment of other items sold at gun shows, repackaging it in smaller bags to increase their profit margin.
Yet two tons of fertilizer is an awful lot to sell at gun shows. Had McVeigh and Nichols actually purchased that much fertilizer? What is interesting is that employees of Mid-Kansas Co-op were never able to positively identify McVeigh or Nichols during the purported fertilizer buying trips. Although employee Frederick Schendler thought one of the men may have been Terry Nichols, he said during a pre-trial hearing that the second man wasn’t McVeigh. He was driving a truck that didn’t appear to be Nichols’, with a red trailer attached. Papovich told me that Nichols owns no such truck”
And this (which also blew me away):
“In Oklahoma, Whitehurst conducted a test on McVeigh’s clothes, but found nothing.
While the FBI claimed it found traces of PETN in McVeigh’s pants pocket, on his shirts, and on a set of earplugs, Agent Burmeister acknowledged on cross-examination that no PETN or ammonium nitrate was found at the blast scene.
Nor was ammonium nitrate found in McVeigh’s car, his personal effects, hotel rooms he had stayed at, the various storage sheds the suspects allegedly used to store the bomb-making components, or in Nichols’ Herington, Kansas home. The Bureau also found no evidence of explosives residue in samples of McVeigh’s hair, or scrapings from his fingernails”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4gYtqzV97Q&feature=youtube_gdata_player
I mean, if it’s been proven that an ANFO bomb couldn’t cause the damage, that the forensics have been discredited and there was no ammonium nitrate at the blast scene, it’s irrelevant that fertilizer was found at Nichols’!
OSS
Hi Chris,
1. Is there any truth or source for the claims I’ve seen regarding Michael Lee Loudenslager?
Was he allegedly witnessed alive at the scene after the bombingonly to be later listed among the fatalities?
2. Has this letter allegedly written to victim Ramona McDonald by Terrance Yeakey ever been validated?
“Dear Ramona,
I hope that whatever you hear now and in the future will not change your opinions about myself or others with the Oklahoma City Police Department, although some of the things I am about to tell you about is [sic] very disturbing.
I don’t know if you recall everything that happened that morning or not, so I am not sure if you know what I am referring to.
The man that you and I were talking about in the pictures I have made the mistake of asking too many questions as to his role in the bombing, and was told to back off.
I was told by several officers he was an ATF agent who was overseeing the bombing plot and at the time the photos were taken he was calling in his report of what had just went down!
I think my days as a police officer are numbered because of the way my supervisors are acting and there is [sic] a lot of secrets floating around now about my mental state of mind. I think they are going to write me up because of my ex-wife and a VPO.
I told you about talking to Chaplain Poe, well the bastard wrote up in a report stating I should be relieved of my duties! I made the mistake of thinking that a person’s conversation with a chaplain was private, which by the way might have cost me my job as a police officer! A friend at headquarters told me that Poe sent out letters to everyone in the department! That BITCH (Jo Ann Randall) I told you about is up to something and I think it has something to do with Poe. If she gets her way, they will tar and feather me!
I was told that Jack Poe has written up a report on every single officer that has been in to see him, including Gordon Martin and John Avery.
Knowing what I know now, and understanding fully just what went down that morning, makes me ashamed to wear a badge from Oklahoma City’s Police Department. I took and oath to uphold the Law and to enforce the Law to the best of my ability. This is something I cannot honestly do and hold my head up proud any longer if I keep my silence as I am ordered to do.
There are several others out there who was [sic] what we saw and even some who played a role in what happened that day.
[Two Pages Missing]
My guess is the more time an officer has to think about the screw up the more he is going to question what happened… Can you imagine what would be coming down now if that had been our officers’ who had let this happen? Because it was the feds that did this and not the locals, is the reason it’s okay. You were right all along and I am truly sorry I doubted you and your motives about recording history. You should know that it is going to one-hell-of-a-fight.
Everyone was behind you until you started asking questions as I did, as to how so many federal agents arrived at the scene at the same time.
Luke Franey (a ATF agent who claimed he was in the building) was not in the building at the time of the blast, I know this for a fact, I saw him! I also saw full riot gear worn with rifles in hand, why? Don’t make the mistake as I did and ask the wrong people.
I worry about you and your young family because of some of the statements that have been made towards me, a police officer! Whatever you do don’t confront McPhearson with the bomb squad about what I told you. His actions and defensiveness towards the bombing would make any normal person think he was defending himself as if he drove the damn truck up to the building himself. I am not worried for myself, but for you and your group. I would not be afraid to say at this time that you and your family could be harmed if you get any closer to the truth. At this time I think for your well being it is best for you to distance yourself and others from those of us who have stirred up to many questions about the altering and falsifying of the federal investigation’s reports.
I truly believe there are other officers like me out there who would not settle for anything but the truth, it is just a matter of finding them. The only true problem as I see it is, who do we turn to then?
It is vital that people like you, Edye Smith, and others keep asking questions and demanding answers for the actions of our Federal Government and law enforcement agencies that knew beforehand and participated in the cover-up.
The sad truth of the matter is that they have so many police officers convinced that by covering up the truth about the operation gone wrong, that they are actually doing our citizens a favor. What I want to know is how many other operations have they had that blew up in their faces? Makes you stop and take another look at Waco.
I would consider it to be an insult to my profession as a police officer and to the citizens of Oklahoma for ANY of the City, State or Federal agents that stood by and let this happen to be recognized as any thing other than their part in participation in letting this happen. For those who ran from the scene to change their attire to hide the fact that they were there, should be judged as cowards.
If our history books and records are ever truly corrected about that day it will show this and maybe even some lame excuse as to why it happened, but I truly don’t believe it will from what I now know to be the truth.
Even if I tried to explain it to you the way it was explained to me, and the ridiculous reason for having out own police departments falsify reports to their fellow officers, to the citizens of the city and to our country, you would understand why I feel the way I do about all of this.
I believe that a lot of the problems the officers are having right now are because some of them know what really happened and can’t deal with it, and others like myself made the mistake of trusting the one person we were supposed to be able to turn to (Chaplain Poe) only to be stabbed in the back.
I am sad to say that I believe my days as a police officer are numbered because of all of this….”
Cheers
OSS
Yep, definitely a pain in the ass lol. Jk.
Federal Judge Slaps FBI for Continuing OKC Bombing Cover-Up
http://www.republicmagazine.com/news/federal-judge-slaps-fbi-for-continuing-okc-bombing-cover-up.html
ww
From that link…
“During a March 20 hearing in Salt Lake City, U.S. District Judge Clark Waddoups described as “astounding” the FBI’s claim that critical video of the 1995 Oklahoma City Bombing had simply gone “missing” – an assertion that buttresses attorney Jesse Trentadue’s belief that the Bureau has spared no effort to cover up critical facts about the atrocity.”
From an e-book I read on the trial of McVeigh..
“The prosecution also displayed a still frame of a Ryder truck driving by the Regency Towers on the morning of the blast. The time was 8:59 a.m. They then showed a still of the truck blowing up, stamped 9:02 a.m. Curiously, the government was careful not to show the jury any footage which showed any suspects getting out of the truck.”
They “lost” the footage yet showed an alleged still from the segment in question at McVeigh’s trial. Surely there must be records of who provided the still. Of who actually edited the segment. A chain of custody. If it was introduced as evidence, there has to be a record of chain of custody. No?
Identify the links in the chain of custody and pressure can be put on the individuals who actually manhandled the footage. If not pressure, name and shame the bastard(s).
2cents
I struggle with the logic in this bit. If I understand it correctly, the writer expects all building debris from a truck bomb to be in the building and that its not possible for any building debris to be found further from the building than the location of truck bomb.
That is simply not true. The face of the building closest to the truck bomb will deflect some of the blast back out again (like waves in a pool hitting the wall) this deflection will take debris away with it. The result will be some debris inside the building and some in various locations spanning out from that. Its very possible for building debris from a truck bomb to end up significant distances away from the building, even passing back over the bomb source. You only need to research the IRA truck bombs in London and Manchester to see that.
In addition, if the explosives were inside the building as claimed I’d expect to see further damage inside the building. To do that much damage to the face of the building requires a significant amount of explosive. I would image that if the bomb (or bombs?) were inside the building that there would be a far greater amount of debris blown out and there would be significant amounts blown out the other side of the building as well. Yet it seems that the blast is focused on the outside face of the building.
So, the logic and the conclusion in the section I have quoted is left wanting and utterly unconvincing.
@limey
Limey, please review : http://whatreallyhappened.com/RANCHO/POLITICS/OK/PARTIN/okm.htm
and : http://independence.net/okc/congressbombreport.htm
Regards, onebornfree
Is there anything in particular there I should pay attention too? To be honest I didn’t find anything particularly convincing and the links to images were broken so the claimed evidence for planted explosives could not be evaluated completely.
A brief search for available images did reveal a casualty map, which shows a cluster of casualties close to the truck location and the fewer further away. Something you’d not see if the building was rigged in advance as mentioned in those pages you linked, which appear to be identical.
Oh and talking of rigging in advance, that sounds all to familiar to claims about a certain other building event. In order to place effective explosives you need to remove material from around the columns first. Somehow these were not spotted or reported.
Oh and some pictures show burnt out cars in the car park, this too would be consistent with the radial nature of a truck bomb and not in building explosives. It almost makes me wonder if someone will claim energy weapons were used here too.
Sorry I did not know the links were broken. If you “google” “General Partin” and “OKC” together and do a search, you might be able to find those photos elsewhere. If not, let me know and I will try to locate them. [no promises].
Regards, onebornfree
Limey,
This is one that I can agree with Onebornfree about:
“General Partin” and “OKC” together and do a search”
A truck bomb simply could not have caused the damage we find at the Murrah Bldg.
I see you struggling with your own denial here. There is simply no other valid scientific explanation than explosives inside the building.
\\][//
Parallels to 9/11 you say? Just because a bunch of podunkers can’t or won’t do their job does not a conspiracy make. The author is British and they enjoyed the fallout of the Bitten de blitz crowd.
Interesting that the conspiracy theorist were ready to jump on the code breaking quiz posed by the FBI on the corpse of a dead black man in Mo. No reward-just call the OC unit. (Short for either organized crime or obsessive compulsive). When Jaque Waller never surfuced, but her business cards did near a group of mailboxes, they try to rally the troops to get bit by chiggers-all the while planning where they’ll take ol’ Clay. To everyone’s surprise, it’s off to LA where they’ve already set up those FEMA concentration camps.
A secretary that lives in the same neighborhood where a doctor brutally bludgeoned his wife to death (maybe cracked her head open with a brick or something really hard) claims Strassmeir was in the building prior to the bomb.
Perhaps no one had learned the color codes at that time, and only wanted to focus on more germane things such as the red neck militants that form their own armies-like JT Ready in AZ, and chose instead a more liberal approach-collecting students to rally their causes via the media-just like today.
I find it interesting that you use “follow the white rabbit” on your blog. In reality, the white rabbit will follow you.
I’m surprised 9/11 didn’t occur a year earlier. I suppose no one was really all into poetry or FEMA concentration camps at that time.
They don’t have that ability- though they’d like others to think they do. Lol!
Cheap army trash trying to convince others they are smarter.
The same reason a neuroscientist couldn’t pull it off either. Fear! And, lots of it.
OKC was an easy target. Mostly military and a lot of psychobabble abounds. They don’t do anything unless they think others will hold them in the highest esteem for reeling in the “mafia” or acting as if they’ve invented something no one else would have thought of. They pass laws that no one will ever enforce, hire people they know will not do their jobs, and implement a system of citizen policing and citizen journalists.
A blogger in the area folded up her blog after someone slipped a lizard under her door and stole her personal belongings. They like the idealism of being anonymous for political value, but, they do not like what happens when it affects them personally.
Leaning on ’60s mentality, they like to think themselves ghosterly and above detection. If caught, they always have a verbal-often psychological garble-to cover their tracks. They just pick people to hide behind…just that simple. They utilize the current and past statistics to claim their righteousness and the probability that they, and their ilk, are correct.
Who’ll know the difference? They aren’t even sober yet!
Ah, I don’t have a clue what you’re talking about. Why don’t you just state clearly what you mean instead of talking in riddles? Or maybe it’s just me.
No it’s not just you Craig,
I would bet my tin hat that Tinker Bell lost all her fairy dust under MK sessions herself.
Seems she is quite scrambled, and has some real issues with “the 60s”…
She does have some indicators for the MO of a MK victim. Denial being one of the major ones.
\\][//
They do not have the ability to control someone’s mind. They do, however, have the ability to harass someone to death by threatening their friends and family.They have the ability to break and enter under the guise of getting to the truth.They have the ability to stalk since the pavement belongs to all and they are liberal enough to use it. They have the ability to persuade others that they are omnipotent and can collect hackers.
More than anything, they have the ability to persuade others that the 60’s will never end.
They have the ability to train their extortion rings in the practice of martial arts. They have the ability to grab equipment to use on civilians to further their who-dunnit practice.They have the ability to convince others that it is for their freedom and well-being when in reality it is to get someone elected to something or hammer out something in type that they can sell…outside the usual repetitious ramblings that they are confined to.
I was reading an article in which a woman-in Virgina I believe-was taken in for hypnosis to recall the vehicle and plate number of someone who may have been stalking her. You’d think she’d be able to recall that on her own.
Bullcrap is king.
Perhaps a study in stalking, or serial killers would do everyone good.
McVeigh wouldn’t tell because he would know someone else would kill him anyway. Psyed out
Thinker Bell-JUNE 29, 2012 – 2:33 PM
You claim:
“They do not have the ability to control someone’s mind.”
Sorry, but you don’t have the slightest idea of what you are talking about.
I have studied intelligence ops, espionage, and psychological operations for more than forty years. The literature is full of proofs of Mind Control, and it is explained in great detail how this is accomplished.
Look up, ‘MKUltra’ – ‘Artechoke’ – and simply ‘Mind Control’, you will find a plethora of links to sound information on the subject.
\\][//
Psyched out by movies of the mafia when in reality it is only drug rings employed by others who dupe it out to be king of the area.
What do you believe the much bigger picture is?
Sasse.
I think it is quite obvious that the big and little picture that Tinker sees is a swirling spinwheel of a inward vortex, along with voices whispering to her in her subconscious.
The lady is damaged goods.
\\][//
Yeas the Brown truck was at the car in the afternoon and who knew who to double if others did not know?
Hello. My name is Wendy S. Painting, PhD. I researched, co-wrote and co-produced ‘A Noble Lie.’ Please check out this link to learn more about the release of two upcoming books I’ve written (one about McVeigh specifically and one about the bombing.) Given time constraints, there was a lot of new information that was not able to be included in Noble Lie but that will be in these two books. You can help by contributing directly or by sharing this link. Thanks! https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/coup-the-1995-oklahoma-city-bombing-plot
Hi Wendy,
I very much look forward to reading these two books.
Reblogged this on Paper Clip Fishing and commented:
Here are some more details about Oklahoma City. I don’t want to hear any nonsense about the USA bombing Syria to “save the children”. Our government has enough children’s deaths on its own conscience to make amends for. Let’s get some answers about all of the noble lies in US history before we run around being the policeman of the world. Why hasn’t Bill Clinton been prosecuted for war crimes?
Gary Hunt who was heavily involved in the Maher Refuge and is currently writing “The Burns Chronicles” over at Outpost Freedom was John Doe #4 in the Oklahoma City bombing. It’s also believed he was involved in Waco. Ryan Payne (also a key player in the Maher Refuge takeover) “his old friend” is believed to be John Doe #6. They’ve been involved in pulling off false flags for the govt for a long time.
“Oklahoma City Bombing
The Plot Thickens
By William Cooper
“First the reader must know that the federal takedown of the organization known as the Covenant Sword and Arm of the the Lord occurred on April 19, 1985. The assault on the Weaver family occurred over the same date and would have ended on April 19 except that 2 reporters stumbled upon the feds attempt to hoist a fuel bladder by helicopter which they had intended to drop on the Weaver cabin and ignite burning alive all inside. The final assault upon the Branch Davidians occurred on April 19, 1993. The bombing of the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building also occurred on April 19th. If you believe that all these events happening on the exact same date to be coincidence you need a brain surgeon.
Another very curious fact is that David Koresh and Timothy McVeigh were both 33 years old at the time of their deaths. I have no idea what that might mean but it is very curious indeed.
Our investigation of the Oklahoma City bombing of the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building has uncovered the following:
John Doe #1 is Timothy McVeigh.
John Doe #2 is Michael Brescia, an army buddy of Timothy McVeigh. Until recently he was in federal custody. The federal government has protected and hidden the identity of this criminal because he is an informant for the at least one agency of the United States government. He is not a Nazi, white Supremacist, anti-Semite, or racist. When we asked the FBI to provide us with a photo of Michael Brescia for positive identification they refused. We obtained photos from Patriot law enforcement personnel within our organization. We positively identified Michael Brescia as John Doe #2 from those photos.
John Doe #3 has been positively identified as Andreas Strassmier, a West German Intelligence operative. He is not a Nazi, white supremacist, anti-Semite, or racist. Sources in Germany claim Strassmier is Jewish. This information has been confirmed by two additional independent German sources.
John Doe #4 has been positively identified by the Intelligence Service as Gary Hunt. He has never been questioned by any law enforcement agency. Gary Hunt was also involved with the Waco Massacre in 1993. Gary Hunt is an informant for the Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms (BATF). Gary Hunt masquerades as an American Patriot. The ethnic and religious background of Gary Hunt is not known at this time.
John Doe #5 has been positively identified by the Intelligence Service as Daniel Spiegelman (a.k.a. William Taylor), a fund raiser for the Oklahoma City bombing operation. He was arrested and imprisoned in the Netherlands when he attempted to sell historic documents that were stolen from Columbia University for the purpose of financing the OKC bombing. Spiegelman was extradited from the Netherlands to the United States on the condition that he would not be charged with a capital crime for which he could receive the death sentence. United States District Judge Lewis Kaplan, a Zionist, sentenced Spiegleman to 60 months in jail, 3 years probation, 300 days of community service in an adult literacy education program, and restitution to Columbia in an amount not yet determined. Daniel Spiegelman’s conviction will most likely be set aside because his defense lawyer Paul Kurtz was discovered to be a fake lawyer. Paul Kurtz, 56, of Bethesda, Md., was charged in a 41-count indictment issued by a Manhattan federal jury for claiming to be a licensed attorney and defending clients including Daniel Spiegelman who was convicted of stealing rare manuscripts from Columbia University. Spiegelman was sentenced in April 1998. Daniel Spiegelman is Jewish.
John Doe #6 remains unidentified at this time. We have a video tape of John Doe #6 in the company of Gary Hunt (John Doe #4) walking away from the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building within 10 minutes after the bombs detonated. Both men in the video tape are carrying transmitters in their hands.
Mike Vanderboegh of the “John Doe Times” is an agent of the Anti Defamation League masquerading as a Patriot commander of the Alabama 1st Calvary (Militia). The Militia which he claims to command does not exist… it is a fraud. His purpose is to place the blame for the Oklahoma City bombing on Patriots and the Lawful Militia attributing a motive of white supremacist anti-Semitism and racism. A charge that cannot be true in light of the ethnic identity of several John Does.
The Branch Davidians were a racial mix of mostly Black, Hispanic, and had even a couple of Jewish members. Only a very small minority of the Church was Caucasian (white). Racist white supremacist anti-Semites would rejoice at their death not seek revenge. Racist white supremacist anti-Semites do not avenge the death of Blacks, Hispanics, Orientals, and Jews.
The People who worked in the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building were mostly Caucasian (white) and could not ever have been the target of racist white supremacist anti-Semites. Racist white supremacist anti-Semites do not murder whites.
The KKK and white supremacist groups expressed dissatisfaction with the manner in which the BATF and FBI were handling the situation and called for an assault by the government to end the stand-off. A contingent of KKK white supremacists traveled to Waco to offer their services to the BATF and FBI in order to affect the arrests of the Branch Davidians. If the KKK was for the takedown of the Davidians how and why would they seek revenge for their deaths?
Prominent members of the Anti Defamation League made public statements which were carried by the major news networks (recorded by us and placed in safekeeping) which disclosed that the ADL had the perpetrators under surveillance for two years. The spokesmen stated that they knew the bombing was going to happen well in advance. Prominent members of the ADL were instrumental in fomenting the attack upon the Branch Davidians in Waco Texas in 1975.
John Doe #7 is the leader of Elohim City Rev. Robert G. Millar an ADL, FBI, and BATF informant who was instrumental in bringing down the Covenant, Sword, and Arm of the Lord on April 19, 1985. It is because of Millar’s status as an informant Elohim City has developed the reputation as a safe haven for racist criminals in America.
Carol Howe was an BATF informant and disclosed the plans of the bombing and those involved to the BATF. After the bombing Carol Howe disclosed this information to the public and the press. The BATF attempted to imprison Carol Howe in order to silence her but lost their case. She maintains that the BATF knew the culprits and the target (a government building) well before the bombing occurred.
Governor Keating, Keating’s brother, Representative Ernest Istook (R) Oklahoma, Anti Defamation League, FBI, BATF, United States Marshall Service, Oklahoma City Fire Department, Oklahoma City Police Department, and the Oklahoma City Bomb Squad knew the bombing would occur well in advance of April 19, 1995.
The American Intelligence Community knew of the plans to detonate a bomb in the “heartland” of America as early as 1971 and wrote of it in a Top Secret document called MAJESTYTWELVE which contains the plan for the disarmament of the American People and implementation of a world socialist totalitarian government.
The Oklahoma City bombing was a joint operation involving intelligence operatives of the United States, Germany, and Israel. The purpose of the bombing was to strike terror into the heartland of America destroying the illusion of safety and security in America. Those responsible set the propaganda wheels in motion to blame Patriots, Militia, and religious fundamentalists in order to prepare American Citizens to more readily accept personal disarmament in preparation for world socialist totalitarian government, beginning with the passage of an unconstitutional anti-terrorist bill which passed Congress and became law soon after the bombing.
During his tenure as Director of the FBI William Steele Sessions created the National Security Threat List, which was approved by the Attorney General in 1991, it changed its approach from defending against hostile intelligence agencies to protecting U.S. information and technologies. It thus identified all countries–not just hostile intelligence services–that pose a continuing and serious intelligence threat to the United States. It also defined expanded threat issues, including the proliferation of chemical, biological, and nuclear weapons; the loss of critical technologies; and the improper collection of trade secrets and proprietary information. During a press conference in 1993 (during the Waco fiasco) FBI Director William S. Sessions warned the nation of a Jewish underground which threatened the National Security of the United States of America. He was immediately politically attacked by AIPAC interests and its political stooges. He appeared on television two weeks later to announce his resignation as Director of the FBI with his arm (broken) in a sling.
Ari Shavit, an Israeli columnist, wrote in an essay reprinted in the May 27, 1996 issue of the New York Times from the Israeli paper Haaretz, while reflecting sorrowfully on the wanton Israeli killing of more than 100 Lebanese civilians in April, that:
“We killed them out of a certain naive hubris. Believing with absolute certitude that now, with the White House, the Senate, and much of the American media in our hands, the lives of others do not count as much as our own…”
Joseph Sobran, in a June 13, 1996 edition of The Wanderer said, “In a single phrase – ‘in our hands’ – Shavit has lighted up the American political landscape like a flash of lightning.”
The admission confirms what has been labeled “an anti-Semitic conspiracy theory”. Sobran admits in his article that this “theory” is held my many Israelis.
Sobran wrote:
“Charges of anti-Semitism and a quiet but very effective boycott will be the reward of any journalist who calls attention to his own government’s – and his own profession’s – servitude to Israeli interests. Shavit states as an obvious fact what Americans can say publicly only at great risk. It is surprising and refreshing to find such candor in an American newspaper.
“The prescribed take on this subject is that Israel is a ‘reliable ally’ of the United States, despite Israel’s long record of double-dealing against this country, ranging from the killing of American sailors to constant espionage and technology theft. The word ‘ally’ implies that the relationship exists because it’s in the interests of this country, though Israel’s lobby is clearly devoted to the interests of Israel itself, and it’s childish to suggest otherwise.
“You expect that from the Israeli lobby: lobbies are lobbies, after all. But it’s unnerving that the White House, the Senate, and much of the American media should be ‘in our hands,’ as Shavit puts it. Bill Clinton, a lover of peace since his college days, raised no protest when the Israelis drove 400,000 innocent Lebanese out of their homes in ‘retaliation’ for rockets launched into Israel (wounding one Israeli) by a faction over whom those 400,000 had no control. ‘Congress, of course, was supine as usual at this latest extravagance of Israeli defense.’ Congress too is ‘in our hands’.
“A recent article in The Washington Post likened the Israel lobby’s power to that of the gun and tobacco lobbies. But there is one enormous difference. Newspapers like the Post aren’t afraid to criticize the gun and tobacco lobbies. They will say forthrightly that those lobbies seek goals that are dangerous for this country. They don’t dare say as much of the Israeli lobby.
“but much of the press and electronic media are ‘in our hands’ in a more active sense: They supply misleading pro-Israel propaganda in the guise of news and commentary, constantly praising Israeli ‘democracy’ and ignoring Israel’s mistreatment of its non-Jewish minorities – mistreatment which, if any government inflicted it on a Jewish minority, would earn it the fierce opprobrium of our media.
“Very few in America are doing anything to change this sorry state of affairs. Shavit wrote his article in the desperate hope of turning back his countrymen and his government from a morally and politically perilous course. At least he can hope. It’s harder for us, when our own government isn’t in our hands.”
The importance of this information is that the bombing of the Oklahoma City Murrah Federal Building could NOT EVER have been the racist actions of White Supremacists exacting revenge for the massacre of the Branch Davidians at Waco, Texas.
International Zionism is racist claiming its adherents to be a superior race chosen by God to rule over all other races and nations in a world totalitarian socialist government. Most Jews do NOT adhere to that belief. Most American Jews are loyal American Patriots. Most modern day Zionists are adherents of the British Israel philosophy, Christian Identity, and Christians, including Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson, Robert Schuller, and other misguided leaders of the Christian religion. For confirmation see “Project Trojan Horse” and understand that People like Zionist Lt. Col. James “Bo” Gritz are not friends of this American Republic.
http://www.hourofthetime.com/plot.htm
William Cooper, Harvest Trust, and the Intelligence Service are NOT racist, white supremacist, Zionist, or anti-Semitic. We refute all racist and/or “superior race” philosophies as they are a plague upon the human race. We are loyal Americans interested only in the truth. “Seek ye the truth and the truth shall make you free.” — Jesus